Back to Contents Riad Al Khouri: Yes. UNRWA has for years been suffering from financial and other problems. However, there is no comparable organization for the Lebanese people. The Lebanese people have Lebanese government services, whether they are health or other services. But these have suffered tremendously over the past few years because of the weakness of the Lebanese state and for economic reasons also. Asylos: Do you have any idea how stateless LGBTQ Palestinians are living in Lebanon? Riad Al Khouri: I do not know much about this topic. Lebanon has a better record than most Arab countries about such people. But there is still discrimination. And the discrimination cuts across nationalities. Whether you are Lebanese, Palestinian refugee, Syrian refugee or other, there is discrimination, particularly among the Muslims. And most Palestinian refugees are Muslim. There are Christian Palestinian refugees, but their situation is much better than that of the Muslims, including assimilation, getting Lebanese nationality, and other matters. Asylos: Are you aware of any added penalty, for example, deportation for stateless Palestinians who committed offenses in Lebanon or outside of Lebanon? Riad Al Khouri: I do not think it is legally possible to deport a Lebanese-based Palestinian refugee. They are refugees. They fled Palestine and came to Lebanon. Lebanon does not deport such people. Asylos: We reached the last section on political participation and protests. Can Palestinians gather to protest, or hold a political office in Lebanon? Do you know stateless Palestinians who ever managed to become public political figures? Riad Al Khouri: The quick answer is no. However, before 1948 I know from my own personal experience with family and friends, among others, the line between Palestinian and Lebanese was not serious. There were intermarriages, business partnerships, and other relations, so that today you have people in Lebanon who are politicians or in office who are originally Palestinian. However, these are people-- A, they are bourgeois; they are not poor people. And B, they were Lebanese citizens before 1948, but they are originally Palestinian. And this point appears. A Lebanese will say so and so is originally from Palestine, even though he was born and brought up in Lebanon with Lebanese nationality. They will still regard him as originally Palestinian. Having said that, they can be in positions of responsibility or power like Lebanese who made money, which is the key thing in Lebanon. If you are rich, then all these other issues become secondary. Now, about the poor Palestinian refugees, I do not know of cases where they have become part of the Lebanese society, political system, and so forth. They may have power or a high profile within the Palestinian camps and in the Palestinian community, but not outside. Asylos: considering the first group you are talking about, people of Palestinian descent who climb the ladder within those Lebanese political institutions, would you say that they entered the majority political institution, or do they remain in the opposition? Riad Al Khouri: This depends more on the sects. I mentioned minutes ago. The most powerful sect in Lebanon is the Maronite Christian sect which is under the Vatican. Somehow, under the Vatican. They are the sect of the commander of the army and the president of the republic. The other sects, including the Muslim ones, have, informally or formally, access to certain positions in the state - certain power. The Palestinians tend to be of the Sunni Muslim sect and as such there may be intermarriage or business partnerships with Lebanese Sunni Muslim. And as I mentioned a minute ago, people from these groups before 1948, who became Lebanese, married Lebanese, or had a strong business presence in Lebanon, may today have power as individuals or families. But for the Lebanese refugee today from a poor background, to become part of the Lebanese political structure is almost impossible. Asylos: According to you, do stateless Palestinians experience any form of reprisals because of gathering, protesting, or gaining a public profile for speaking on a political issue. Do you remember any gathering specifically around the identity of Palestinians? Palestinians who would gather publicly to make their cause visible. And in this case, were they arrested, detained, harassed in any form? Riad Al Khouri: This was the case in the 1970s and 80s. It is no longer the case. Palestinians might undertake demonstrations inside the camps. And you must remember, the camps are officially or otherwise, a state within a state. The Lebanese government, Lebanese security, Lebanese public services do not work in the camps. The camps can be quite big. We are talking about tens of thousands of people in one camp. And there are camps around Lebanon. Outside the camps, almost nothing. 17. Appendices 162