Back to Contents collaboration between the Palestinian authorities, stakeholders in the country, and also the Lebanese government, and also the Lebanese military and security forces. Asylos: Do you know the proportion of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon who do not have a registration with DPAR, nor with UNRWA, but whose father is registered with the DGS? Ziad El Sayegh: No, I don’t know how many, but I knew that some of these people succeed in terms of an official request to the Directorate of the General Security in the country. They succeed to get a travel document, a travel doc, but I don't know how many there are. No, I don't know. Asylos: Do you know whether after acquiring a third nationality (not Palestinian nor Lebanese) Palestinian refugees in Lebanon are still entitled to the travel documents issued by the Lebanese authorities? Ziad El Sayegh: I don't think there is a close relation between these two equations. The problem is very simple. You have many Palestinian refugees that they receive a passport from the Palestinian Authority of the Palestinian State), and this kind of passport is recognized by the Lebanese Authority. And this is another solution that was led by the Palestinian Authority to make sure that they can help these stateless people. And there is another solution that I mentioned earlier that the DSG, Directorate of General Security of the country, tried also with the Palestinian Embassy in the country and the Ministry of Interior and Municipalities and UNRWA to make sure that these stateless are allowed to move within the country and from the country without paralyzing such a movement outside or inside the country because of they don't have any nationality. Have two kinds of solutions: Palestinian authority passport and Lebanese travel document. And they are complementary now, and each specific case are analyzed in a very specific methodology and based on facts. And since 2006, there is a new era between Palestinian and the Lebanese, and here I was not an observer. I was one of the member founder of Lebanese Palestinian Dialogue Committee. And we worked on this, and we paved the way for a new collaboration. That said, as much as we still have lack of laws to facilitate the Palestinian refugee's life in Lebanon, but we still have also other problems when we are talking about the arms inside and outside the camps. This is another story that can also a little bit put obstacles within this freedom of movement in the country. We should take-Asylos: That is indeed very relevant to the next point we're interested in. How do checkpoints affect stateless Palestinians freedom of movement? Ziad El Sayegh: They don't affect. If you go to all the camps, you can see in the north and in the south inside and equally, and the camps are mainly connected now to the Lebanese areas and the Lebanese villages and the Lebanese-- they are connected. They are working together. They are living together. They are sharing together. The checkpoints are still there to supervise the situation of the Palestinian arms inside and outside the camps. And this is another story. This is not to do with the Palestinian refugees themselves. Now it is due to the Hezbollah intervention and not allowing the Lebanese state to put an end for these arms. And this is a very simple story. This is a policy story. This is a political story, policy-oriented, very well policy-oriented by Hezbollah in the country. And don't undermine please this structure. The Lebanese Army is surrounding the Palestinian refugees camp, and this is where I am. I'm always discussing this with my Palestinian friend. Stop presenting yourselves always as victims. Please stop. And I'm telling also my Lebanese compatriot that it's time that the state put an end for the illegal arms inside and outside the camps. And it's time to go more to a civil approach in the country to restore the Lebanese Palestinian memory. Here there's a story of checkpoints is becoming a traditional story where you have a polarized approach from the Lebanese side, but also from Palestinian side, and it's time to put an end for this negative polarization from both sides. Asylos: May I ask what you mean by a polarized story? Ziad El Sayegh: The Lebanese are saying these camps are out of law, and we should control these camps. And some Palestinian Factions that are not aligned with PLO are saying we should keep our arms to protect ourselves because the Lebanese state is coming to kill us. And The PLO declared clearly that no need for arms inside and outside the campus, and the Lebanese sovereignty should be respected. Both narratives are not true if you see the Lebanese and Palestinian now living. They are living together. This kind of polarization is political. The Lebanese ruling regime is trying to play a dirty game on the Palestinian refugees portfolio in terms of, say, raise fears, radicalize people, polarize votes, and it's political game. The Palestinian Factions (not PLO) on other hand are playing the same game. This is my equation. Polarization is everywhere. And from the Palestinian side also, you have another narrative coming from the Palestinian factions, mainly now coming 17. Appendices 168