Back to Contents Interview with Mr. Ziad El Sayegh on October 31, 2022 Asylos: I will start with the first question which relates to the section on legal and policy frameworks in the implementation. We found information by UNICEF, which related to the very, I quote, "complicated and costly birth registration procedures," that children of stateless Palestinians have to go through. Could you tell us more about these birth registration procedures? Ziad El Sayegh: There is no complication across the procedure at all. We have a department of Palestinian refugees within the Ministry of Interior and Municipalities in Lebanon, and you have also another registration at UNRWA. There is a I guess collaboration between UNRWA and this department within the Ministry of Interior and Municipalities. And it should go smoothly like this. It's very simple. Once they register through the UNRWA, they should go also to have a kind of an official paper from a responsible within the region they are living. After, it can be approved by the Embassy of Palestine of Lebanon and registered directly to the department of Palestinian refugees within the Ministry of Interior and Municipalities in Lebanon. If there is some costs for some members, for example, or a paper coming from the responsible, which is Al Mokhtar in Lebanon, who is responsible in a region. It is nothing, and the Lebanese people are paying for this when someone is born. They are paying the same. This is why I think this kind of information are irrelevant. Why? Because if a Lebanese citizen is obliged to pay for this responsible in the region - and it's an official rate - to give him an official paper and after, go to the Ministry of Interior and Municipality to submit a request. Also, you have a small cost that a Lebanese citizen should pay for it. It's nothing. They are the same. And here, if we are talking about equalities, we cannot ask the Lebanese citizens to pay for this and the Palestinian refugees will not pay. And for me, the solution is very simple. The UNRWA should have a special budget to cover this cost if any Palestinian refugees cannot pay for it. They should cover this cost. And here I'm going to the solution directly. Instead of saying there is a cost, let's try together to finalize a solution between the UNRWA and the department of Palestinian refugees within the Ministry of Interior and Municipalities in Lebanon. And we can solve this problem if the problem is the cost. For me, there is another problem. I'm not sure that all the Palestinian refugees are registering their newborns when they come. And this is another problem. And here we should investigate, and I advise you to add this to your work here, to your questionnaire to see why some Palestinian refugees are not registering their newborn. Why? Or where if they are not registering it within the Lebanese state and the Palestinian embassy only at UNRWA only. There is a lack here of collaboration between the Lebanese Ministry of Interior and Municipality and UNRWA and the Embassy of Palestine. This is the main problem, not the cost is the problem. The problem is there is a lack of a coordination mechanism to make sure that all the newborn are registered officially in Lebanon to make sure that they are not stateless in the future. Asylos: We have a section on freedom of movements. The Dutch Ministry of Foreign Affairs stated that the Lebanese General Security can deliver travel documents to Palestinian refugees in Lebanon who have an ID card and who have a UNRWA registration card. Based on your knowledge, does it mean that these travel documents are only available to Palestine refugees? Ziad El Sayegh: Of course. They are only to Palestine refugees. Yes. But each specific case, stateless are taken into consideration within the Directorate of General Security in Lebanon. And here we should go back to a mechanism that we created in 2008 within the Lebanese Dialogue Committee that time to give these non-IDs or these stateless a kind of official paper (Identification Paper). It is not as a Palestinian refugee paper. It is a kind of an official paper saying that this man, this woman, these children are Palestinian refugees, but they have a problem in their papers. And this was supposed to be a transitional period where we should discuss with the UNRWA because the main stateless people were coming from Gaza and West Bank. Gaza that time was under Egypt governance, and West Bank was under Jordanian governance, and these people lost their official papers from Gaza and from West Bank and from Egypt and from Jordan. This is why in 2008- and it took us six months to finalize such a mechanism, and we succeed in making this happening, but unfortunately, after sometime the Minister of interior put an end for this. And I know why. It's for political reason. I know why, but it was not acceptable to put an end for this. And from that time this kind of official papers were paralyzed, but I know that the DGS, the Directorate of General Security are now taking into consideration these difficulties for these people, and they are following and trying to find a solution for each specific case based on a specific measure. And we should recognize this. This is not to say that the problem is solved. No. But there is a serious essay within the DSG, Directorate of General Security to try to find a transitional solution until-- and this is the role of the Lebanese Palestinian Dialogue Committee. I don't know if they are following this now. It seems for me this is not the case because if you don't put, on the table, a clear mechanism, we will continue having a specific solution for a specific case which is not sustainable for me, and it should not continue like this. And of course, this is paralyzing the freedom of movement for the travel only. But within the country, it is not paralyzing anything. They can move within the country. They can move within the country, and there is a constructive 17. Appendices 167