Back to Contents Interview with Mr Riad Al Khouri on October 7, 2022 Asylos: The first aspect where we are missing information on concerns the rights to a nationality, for children of refugees. We found a UNICEF report saying that birth registration procedures are complicated and costly. Would you be able to give us a more detailed description of the different steps it requires and the costs it implies? Riad Al Khouri: I am familiar with this issue from the point of view of the nationality. The procedure in most Arab countries, including Lebanon, is for the children to inherit the nationality of their father, including in my country, Jordan. And this is the case with the refugees in Lebanon. If a Palestinian refugee woman marries a Lebanese man, then her children become Lebanese nationals. But if a Palestinian refugee man marries a Lebanese woman, then the children do not get Lebanese nationality, and this causes problems. Now about the birth certificate, I have no direct information, except to note that the cost of these procedures and the time they take in Lebanon is respectively high and complicated, including for birth certificates, but also covering other issues. Go ahead, please. Asylos: Concerning freedom of movement, we found information concerning travel documents, notably reports by the Dutch government showing that Palestinian refugees in Lebanon can apply for a travel document from the General Security of Lebanon and that it requires an ID card and UNRWA registration cards. Does it mean that these travel documents are only available to Palestine refugees if they need to register with UNRWA, or is it also open to other types of status? Riad Al Khouri: Now, our conversation is strictly about Palestinians, is that correct? We are not talking about Syrian or other refugees. Asylos: We are not talking about Syrian refugees, but we are interested in Palestinian refugees from Syria who moved to Lebanon after the war. Riad Al Khouri: Okay. In both cases, the procedures for these people, whether they are Palestinian refugees in Lebanon or Palestinian refugees from Syria who came to Lebanon at various times over the past few years, the procedure is difficult and complicated. And in any case, once you have this travel document, there is not much you can do with it in terms of travelling without a visa or obtaining a visa to travel. Asylos: Okay, so your information relates to after the moment where you obtain this document, you are saying that it is not well-enforced. Riad Al Khouri: Exactly. Before you obtain the document, there is a procedure to go through which can be time-consuming, and otherwise, it is not easy. After you obtain the document, there is not much you can do with it either to travel to other countries without a visa or to obtain a visa to travel to other countries. It is not a useful document. Asylos: We have a section of the report concerning checkpoints and the way they affect stateless Palestinians’ free movement within Lebanon. We were wondering if you have more information on where the checkpoints are and what happens on arrest and which groups suffer discrimination, on which grounds. Riad Al Khouri: I think that this may have been a problem in the past. It is no longer a major problem. Now, to clarify, we are talking about two distinct kinds of checkpoints here. One would be an official checkpoint of the Lebanese army or the Lebanese police. And there are few problems or restrictions in this regard, including arbitrary arrest. I do not think this is a real problem. The other checkpoints are informal. Lebanon is full of militias. These are not government bodies, they are private. They may, in a certain area, be representative of people. In other words, they are not just criminal gangs, they are somehow politically or socially based, and they may from time to time have checkpoints. But again, talking about the present, this is not a major problem. It was a major problem in the past going back to the 1970s in ‘80s, it would be possible to hold people or even imprison or even kill at these checkpoints, including Palestinian refugees. But this was 40 years ago. We are talking about the present. This is no longer a major problem. Asylos: All right. Did I understand you correctly that you are saying that also the second type of checkpoints potentially held by militia and private armed persons are no longer a problem? 17. Appendices 158